From one crisis to another: the new interdependencies between the state and global finance[D’une crise à l’autre : les nouvelles interdépendances entre l’État et la finance globale]

More than ten years after the crisis of 2008, the role of finance questions: how is it now at the center of public policies when, only a short time ago, it was accused of being the cause of the most serious economic crisis since the 1929 crash? How did finance go from being a "problem" to be solved to being a solution to govern crises? How has the relationship between governments and finance shifted since 2008? And to what extent do they contribute to the recomposition of political and social orders? In this interview, we present three perspectives on this new age of financialization - from heterodox political economy (Daniela Gabor), to neo-institutionalist sociology (Wolfgang Streeck) and to critical sociology (Frédéric Lebaron). Daniela Gabor proposes the notion of "derisking state" to think about the new techniques by which the state has opened up new areas of the society to finance since 2008, transforming these areas into asset classes and reducing the risk for investors. Wolfgang Streeck insists on the transformations of the consolidation state, in which markets function as a tool for disciplining public spending, while their stability depends on state debt. Finally, Frédéric Lebaron shows that these new interdependencies between states and private investors cannot be understood without analyzing the specific dynamics through which central banks establish themselves within the fields of power. In doing so, we offer a range of tools to interpret the political and social transformations that are taking place today in the rearrangement between states, central banks and finance.